Patti Wood, a body language and nonverbal communication expert and author of SNAP: Making the Most of First Impressions, Body Language, and Charisma, told HuffPost that she thinks Musk’s standing “shows a certain level of power over Trump, who is sitting.”

President Donald Trump and “First Buddy” Elon Musk’s viral joint press conference in the Oval Office on Tuesday could not have gone better—at least according to one body language expert. As Musk talked robotically at length about uncovering alleged government “waste”—and his four-year-old son X Æ A-Xii squirmed and at one point shushed Trump—political pundits declared Trump had been humiliated.

Body language expert Melinda Marcus came to the WFAA studios in Dallas to break down the press conferences from both sides.